Message Number: 0001
Date: 11/19/1997; 03:58 PM
From: Tony Allen, firstname.lastname@example.org
I thought I would start a new thread to discuss the possible contents of the proposed re-issues. I (we) have been invited to make suggestions as to the bonus tracks on each CD. These are the guidelines I have received from Bob Irwin (Sundazed):
"Here are the basic parameters of the releases: they will be mid-line priced titles, so tha track listing will have to be kept basically the original album, plus 2,3 or maybe 4 bonus cuts each. The bonus cuts should consist of
a) unissued material from the appropraite sessions
b) non-LP single sides and B-sides
c) single versions that are different from the LP versions
d) mono versions that differ from their stereo counterparts
I will start the ball rolling with what I know about at the moment. Hopefully the group can remember a few more tracks:
Original Stereo LP complete ( is the mono version different in any way ???)
Like a Rolling Stone (Dylan)
You Can't Do That (Lennon McCartney)
Take What You Want (???)
One More Heartache (???)(is this the song on the Butterfield Blues Band ..Crabshaw LP ??)
You Keep Me Hanging On (single version ATCO 6495/ATCO 6590)
Come By Day Come By Night ( B side of ATCO 6590)
THE BEAT GOES ON
This is a tricky one. There is probably heaps on unedited material from these sessions since most of the tracks are very short. Who knows? Being a concept album adding tracks to the end may detract. However the relevant single from this period is:
Where is My Mind (ATCO 6554)
The Look Of Love (B side ATCO 6554)
This single may be better tacked on to the end of Renaissance...what do you think?
The Complete LP. I am not aware of any outtakes or alternate versions to this LP. Can anyone help here?
NEAR THE BEGINNING
This LP is crying out to be split into a double LP (in the style of Cream's 'Wheels of Fire' ie: In the Studio and Live.
Shotgun (full version)
Some Velvet Morning
Where Is Happiness?
Good Good Living (the correct name for the track on single ATCO 6655 listed as 'Good Good Lovin' ')
Shotgun (single version ATCO 6655)
Further Outtakes, if they exist...
The entire Filmore Concert (from which an edited Breaksong was taken). Lets hope they can find the complete tape..so far they have only found SOME of it.
ROCK & ROLL
Complete 'A' version of LP (with full version of 'Windmills')
All In Your Mind (Outtake from Rock & Roll Sessions)
Street Walking Woman - 'C' version (slightly longer, vocal overdubs different mix)
If You Gotta Make A Fool Of Somebody - 'C' version (single tracked guitar solo)
Lord In the Country - Single version ATCO 6728
I Can't Make It Alone - 'C' version OR single version ATCO ATCO 6703 (I'm not sure which version was used on the single..a have a copy of it, so I'll have a listen and report back)
Need Love - Single Version ATCO 6703 ( I think the single is the same as the LP version with the end cut off, so this is not an essential unless there is some other difference )
Bonus Tracks: The Vince Martell single
The Beat Goes On (and On)
I'd point out that Psychedelic Sundae which is still availible, did a good job providing most of the single tracks issued by the Fudge except for "Season of the Witch Pt 1 (3:34 min.), ATCO single #45-6632
The "Break Song" was recorded at the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles - not the Fillmore. The Bill Graham Organization did, I believe, record all their shows at the two Fillmore's (SF, NYC) and some very good material might be obtained from them for inclusion in a Sundazed package.
"People", released as a "B" side to the SVM single and included on the Repertoire reissues remains a pretty rare track and would be a good track to include in the list.
The only out of of print Fudge single few people have heard is 1984's ATCO single #7-99729, "Mystery" (4:35 min. version)(Stranger on the "B" side).
The Vince Martell single was issued on MARTELL Records #MR 1142 was issued in 1983.
Thanks for the feedback. Psychedelic Sundae indeed did a great job in collecting almost all of the missing single tracks, many available on CD from the master tapes for the first time. I guess the only real improvement we can do now is to put the tracks back on the LPs to which they were chronologically closest too. I've always wondered about the 'Season of the Witch' single, especially where they broke the track form A to B side. Is the track a noticibly different mix?
Yes, of course you are right about the Shine Auditorium. The reason I thought it was Fillmore was that the mail I got from Bob Irwin said that he has found 'a bit' of unused concert footage which he thought was from Fillmore (but he may have been mistaken). My fantasy would be that an entire 60s concert could be put on CD...there is a chance.
I have my reservations about 'People' since it is so un-Fudge like. I couldn't image where it would fit in..but yes, to complete the picture it needs to be included.
Is the Mystery/Stranger single different from the LP mix?
I am hoping the Fudge members will take to opportunity to assist in this project since they would have a good idea of what was recorded. Maybe we should also try to get in touch with Shadow Morton to see if he is interested in helping. Has anyone at the web-site tried to contact him?
I would be good also if we could try to track down Adrian Barber ( the producer of Rock & Roll ) who may be able to shed light on the two versions story and assist in finding more material. My web searches showed up nothing that would help locate him.
All the best, Tony
The Mystery single is an intersting obscurity in the Fudge catalog.
I have 3 differnt issues (apart from the LP) of it based on two main mixes:
1. The ATCO 45 single proper (ATCO # 7-99729) has the album treack of the song, Mystery, at 4:35 and the album track of the Stranger song off the Mystery album at 4:52.
2. The ATCO *Promotional* (ie Not For Sale) copy of the single ( ATCO45 RPM, Blue Label - But samr number as above) has the 3:39 "EDIT" version of the Mystery single on both sides of the disc.
3. The ATCO &Promotional 33 1/3, single (12" disc) has the LP version of the song on the "A" side (ie 4:35) and the "EDIT" version (3:39) on the "B" side of that 12" disc.
Frankly, IMO, "Golden Age Dream" should have been the single from that LP. When I saw them in 1987 all they played from the Mystery album in their concert was "Golden Age Dream", "My WOrld is Empty" and Tim Bogert's "Don't Stop Now".
Text by Tony Allen:
(I guess the only real improvement we can do now is to put the tracks back on the LPs to which they were chronologically closest too. I've always wondered about the 'Season of the Witch' single, especially where they broke the track form A to B side. Is the track a noticibly different mix? )
Frankly Tony, I think you did as good a job as possible with your list in assigning the singles/b sides/outtakes to the most chronologically appropriate LP's.
As you already indicated, we have to remember that a lot of the singles and B sides were often recorded in sessions apart from the LP recording sessions - including YKMHO.
The Season of the Witch single Parts I (3:30 Min.) and Part II (3:14) are differnentiated by Part I starting similar to the LP track and having Shadow Mortons recitiation of the "liquid sea of love" poem toward the end of the single. Part II has the poem at the start. Note: the recently released bargain cd relelased by Rhino/Flashback (#R2 72802) titled: "Vanilla Fudge/Iron Butterfly HITS" does in fact contain the Part I single of Season of the Witch (first time on cd). Only Part II remains to be released on cd.
Text by Tony ALlen:
(My fantasy would be that an entire 60s concert could be put on CD...there is a chance.)
Another excellent suggestion I gladly support. A Vanilla Fudge in COncert album has been sorely nedded for 30 years. I was also in AUstralia during the "golden age" and never saw the band perform until their 3/4 reunion in 1987 here in the US. AS we've read from so many of the fans, VF were superlative "live" performers. Perhaps no band were better on a stage than the Fudge in the 67-69 era. The FIllmore tapes, Shrine Auditorium tapes, the 82 Eureka Concert tapes and 1987/88 performances all exist somewhere on tape and compiling the best tracks from *ALL* those sources onto one album would be a dream come true for fans and collectors like ourselves.
I doubt there's much or any unreleased material from the Renassance sessions. The band simply recorded it too fast (following TBGO hostile critical reception) for there to be much extra material - but I'm only guessing. Cetainly it and R&R featured the majority of the Fudge's original songs.
People, was a very unique Fudge track and besides it's application to the b side of the SVM single in 1969 I don't know where it would go in relation to the LP's. Vince's guitar style on that song is radically differnet. The track almost reminds me of something Traffic with Dave Mason might have issued.
I think the one album where their might be some more unreleased tracks would be ROck and Roll, but only Adrian Barber would probably know about that. Certainly All in Your Mind, was from around that era. Tim Bogert informed us how the album was recorded individually by the band. Except for the photo on the back cover, Tim could not remember the band ever being together in the studio at the same time when they recorded R&R. Adrian Barber alone knew what tracks and mixes were recorded for that LP in the summer of 1969. If Sundazed would reissue the "A" version of R&R with any unreleased "bonus" tracks from those recording sessions that would be wonderful!
Likewise. only Shadow Morton had any real control or knowledge of TBGO recordings which again was remotely recorded in bits and pieces and agressively edited by him.
AS far as Adrian Barber's location the last I read he was living in Hawaii and several months ago returned to the mainland to work on a commemorative package of some band which I cannot recall right now. If you want it I can go look up the web site that I learned that from. It really didn't say much more than I've just told you, however.
Correction: The Eureka concert was in 1983. The 1982 concert was the KBFH Radio benefit for UNICEF.
Hi Bill And Tony,
Tony has a great list there and Bill you make some good points. The reason I jumped in here is to just remind and encourage everyone who posts suggestions here to please make sure that they also send them to Sundazed. That's where it's going to do the most good. When I e-mailed Bob Irwin I mentioned the web site but I'm not sure how much time he would have to visit it. After all the Fudge reissues aren't the only thing going on at Sundazed so the best way to make sure they see our requests, suggestions, and fantasies is to send them directly to them. Another thing I think could be very insturmental in the success of these reissues is putting band members in touch with Sundazed or vice versa. Who better to tell Bob Irwin what should be available than the Vanilla Fudge themselves? They may have many other things to contribute as well. Rare photos, film or even rare recordings could be made available to Sundazed. But now my level-headed reasoning is slipping into the fantasy realm once more. You guys who have had personal contact with a couple of the band members recently could be a big help in putting these two parties in touch with one another. I'm just so darned excited about these reissues and I want EVERYTHING on them.
Fudge Fan Forever, Stan
Amen to your last statement. We want EVERYTHING on these re-issues...and I suspect that this might be our last chance for quite a while to get it. I got the impression from Bob Irwin that he wasn't planning anything too big from these re-issues....just the original LPs with the relevant singles added on. I hope that now we have let him know that we, the fans, desperately want MORE, that he might upgrade the plans and seek out a lot more unissued material.
The reason I put a suggested track listing here was to encourage the visitors to the site to make suggestions and possibly reveal previously unknown material. Then after a suitable time we mail the track listings to Sundazed as the web site's collective thoughts. I am a little concerned that we might overdo it, if everyone mails competing, separate wish lists to Bob Irwin he may be overwhelmed and not properly consider them, but if we do our homework here we can come to a concensus that would make us all happy.
You're right about the band members. The best people to seek out unissued material is the group (and the producers). Let's hope that Pete and Casey can get them involved!
Hi TOny and Stan,
TExt by Tony ALlen:
(The reason I put a suggested track listing here was to encourage the visitors to the site to make suggestions and possibly reveal previously unknown material. Then after a suitable time we mail the track listings to Sundazed as the web site's collective thoughts. I am a little concerned that we might overdo it, if everyone mails competing, separate wish lists to Bob Irwin he may be overwhelmed and not properly consider them, but if we do our homework here we can come to a concensus that would make us all happy. )
Another excellent suggestion. I did send Sundazed a brief thank you but we don't want to overwhelm them. Like Stan, I'd love to see *EVERYTHING* recorded by the Fudge released in a commemorative box and fully remastered.
Tony, why don't you and Stan take the lead on your suggestion? Both of you try to pull together what we've been able to collectively contribute to this thread and send seperate summaries to Sundazed for all of us. Between the both of you, I'm confident most of the fans wishes will be represented. The rest of us can confine our comments to simple notes of thanks and enocuragement to the record company.
BTW - I did go ahead and posted notices about SUndaze's desire for responses from the fans on two of Richard Arfin's forums and CD Nows Vanilla Fudge Chat board at their Ultimate Band site. If you, Stan or any of the others can think of other news groups to post a notice on please do so. We don't want to overwhelm Sundazed but we do want them to know that the Fudge have a lot of fans out there who have waited an awful long time for some quality Vanilla Fudge reiessues.
I just spoke to Tim Livingston of Sundazed Records. He reports that the plans for the Fudge releases have not changed and they will be getting started fairly soon. They had initially predicted the spring and that's what the goal still is. He was happy to hear that Mark Stein has joined us here, too. There's not much else to report, but I thought I'd reassure you that everything is still set to begin reasonably soon. He said he will post something about it in the next Sundazed update at their site.
"Beautiful voices were singin'. And it did my heart so ...good!"